Curse

Chieftain Heavyhand · Aug 10, 2009, 01:02 PM // 13:02

The Air Magic line is greatly lacking in AoE damage capability, while it has great spike options, compared to the fire line its AoE damage capabilities are bland.

I like the changes that were made during the last update in August, however I think a few more changes would greatly improve the Air line and I would like to make a few suggestions.

Arc Lightning (5E 1C 6R)

Currently:
Spell. Target foe is struck for 5...41...50 lightning damage. If that foe is suffering from a Water Magic Hex, one foe near your target is struck for 15...63...75 lightning damage. Damage from Arc Lightning has 25% armor penetration.

Change:
Spell. Target foe is struck for 5...41...50 lightning damage. If you are enchanted, 0...1...2 foes near your target are struck for 15...63...75 lightning damage. Damage from Arc Lightning has 25% armor penetration.

Notes:
In order to run this skill to get one extra hit the caster needs to also have investments in the water line I know you guys at A-net want synergy between the Water and Air line but the benefit is not that great. The change gives the caster a conditional clause for the additional damage and with all the enchant striping in the game is a good counter to that additional damage.

Chain Lightning (10E 2C 10R)

Currently:
Spell. Target foe and up to two other foes near your target are struck for 10...70...85 lightning damage. This Spell has 25% armor penetration and causes Exhaustion if you are not enchanted.

Change:
Spell. Target foe and up to 2...3...4 other foes near your target are struck for 10...70...85 lightning damage. This Spell has 25% armor penetration and causes Exhaustion if you are not enchanted.

Invoke Lightning (10E 2C 10R)

Current:
Elite Spell. Target foe and up to two other foes near your target are struck for 10...82...100 lightning damage. This Spell has 25% armor penetration. If you are not under the effects of an Enchantment, this spell causes Exhaustion.

Change:
Elite Spell. Target foe and up to 2...4...6 other foes near your target are struck for 10...82...100 lightning damage. This Spell has 25% armor penetration. If you are not under the effects of an Enchantment, this spell causes Exhaustion.

Notes:
Right now the only difference between these two skills is 20 damage which isn't much considering one is an elite. Also the small cap on the number of enemies struck is not very useful for nuking. The changes I am asking for would improve the skills nuking capability while the recharge time, cap on the number of enemies hit and conditions for avoiding exhaustion are enough to keep the skills from being over powered. These changes would resemble that of the Ranger line when comparing Volley to Barrage, but unlike the fire line would have conditions to avoid exhaustion, limit the number of foes that can be struck, and while they do have armor penetration they do not cause conditions.

Lightning Orb (15E 2C 5R)

Current:
Spell. Send out a lightning Orb that strikes target foe for 10...82...100 lightning damage and causes Cracked Armor for 5...17...20 seconds if it hits. This spell has 25% armor penetration.

Change:
Spell. Send out a lightning Orb that strikes target foe and all adjacent foes for 10...82...100 lightning damage. This spell has 25% armor Penetration.

Lightning Hammer (25E 2C 4R)

Current:
Spell. Target foe is struck for 10...82...100 lightning damage. Lightning Hammer has 25% armor penetration.

Change:
Spell. Target foe is struck for 10...82...100 lightning damage and causes Cracked Armor for 5...17...20 seconds if it hits. This spell has 25% armor penetration.

Notes:
I've always thought Lightning Orb should be more like what Fire Ball was and that Lighting Hammer should cause cracked armor like Lightning Orb does.

...

I haven't changed the energy cost or recharge times for these spells because I think they are where they need to be.

The changes to Lightning Orb, Arc Lightning, Chain Lightning, and Invoke Lightning would give an Air magic nuking capability that I think would be something different from the fire line and at the same time would also not end the Air line from having spike damage builds and would open up more alternatives to AoE damage for the el.

I love lightning spells and think this would give an alternative from running fire builds. The Fire line's nuking skills mostly cause burning and have no limit on the number of affected foes. Where the Air Magic lines have armor penetration but would be limited to a certain number of foes.

The number of enemies hit by Chain and Invoke lighting could be 3 and 6, but I was looking at it as a power of 2 for the steps up from Arc, Chain and Invoke when coming up with my numbers.

So what do you guys think?

Edited: just to see if changing the title from nuking to AoE would matter because it seems that most are hung up on that word.

Shayne Hawke · Aug 10, 2009, 01:05 PM // 13:05

That's because Fire is supposed to be the nuking magic and Air is supposed to be the spiking magic. We don't need two Elementalist magic lines that are trying to do the same kinds of things at once.

MarciNoExcess · Aug 10, 2009, 02:12 PM // 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

That's because Fire is supposed to be the nuking magic and Air is supposed to be the spiking magic. We don't need two Elementalist magic lines that are trying to do the same kinds of things at once.

this.

And too much "if youre enchanted if youre enchanted" crap will lead to rend enchantment spam

Pistachio · Aug 10, 2009, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Wouldn't it make more sense to rain down lightning than fire, anyway?

Ugh · Aug 10, 2009, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

That's because Fire is supposed to be the nuking magic and Air is supposed to be the spiking magic. We don't need two Elementalist magic lines that are trying to do the same kinds of things at once.

That ^

Fire = Nukes
Air = Spikes
Water = Snares/hexes
Earth = Defense

If Everything = Nukes, eles would be bland and have no versatality.

Arduin · Aug 10, 2009, 02:25 PM // 14:25

In agreement with the above posters. If you want to nuke, spec Fire Magic. Would you ask for more nuking options in Earth Magic too?

Chieftain Heavyhand · Aug 10, 2009, 02:27 PM // 14:27

Well yea fire is the main nuking line, however, asking that 3 skills that already strike multiple foes be extended to striking a few more and one be changed to strike adjacent foes isn't game breaking and adds variety to nuking options. Fire and Air nuking builds would not be the same if these changes were made.

As for the if enchanted, well yes enchant stripping would occur but it already does and that is a big counter to the Air magic nuking line, where as the fire line differs from that in the respect that if you are not enchanted you can still dish it out. The Air line would be able to nuke but if your enchantments are stripped you would quickly find your self in big trouble.

Extending the number of foes that skills that already hit more than one foe wouldn’t change the spike damage offense the air magic line has, what it would do is provide nukers with an alternative to fire magic.

Xsiriss · Aug 10, 2009, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Air magic only needs stuff like this for pve.Then again most ele stuff needs buffing for HM...

As a side note,fire magic (ie SH before it got kanerfaga'd) was used in assisting spikes etc. more than air magic in PvP.Ironic role reversals much?

ajc2123 · Aug 10, 2009, 02:41 PM // 14:41

SURE and then while we are at it, lets make healing prayers deal AoE damage while healing, soul reaping have AoE spells, and tactics cause AoE damage!

WHY NOT

/unsigned.

Dawn Angelheart · Aug 10, 2009, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chieftain Heavyhand

Arc Lightning (5E 1C 6R)

Currently:
Spell. Target foe is struck for 5...41...50 lightning damage. If that foe is suffering from a Water Magic Hex, one foe near your target is struck for 15...63...75 lightning damage. Damage from Arc Lightning has 25% armor penetration.

Change:
Spell. Target foe is struck for 5...41...50 lightning damage. If you are enchanted, two foes near your target are struck for 15...63...75 lightning damage. Damage from Arc Lightning has 25% armor penetration.

Notes:
In order to run this skill to get one extra hit the caster needs to also have investments in the water line I know you guys at A-net want synergy between the Water and Air line but the benefit is not that great. The change gives the caster a conditional clause for the additional damage and with all the enchant striping in the game is a good counter to that additional damage.

Tbh i just bring a water imp or two, usually solves all my problems tbh.

but i also agree with the others air magic is not for nuking.

Dre · Aug 10, 2009, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajc2123

SURE and then while we are at it, lets make healing prayers deal AoE damage while healing, soul reaping have AoE spells, and tactics cause AoE damage!

WHY NOT

That would make tactics useful ^^

OT: I agree with hawke's comment: each element has it's own purpose
You even said it yourself:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chieftain Heavyhand

... while it has great spike options,...

Chieftain Heavyhand · Aug 10, 2009, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

That's because Fire is supposed to be the nuking magic and Air is supposed to be the spiking magic. We don't need two Elementalist magic lines that are trying to do the same kinds of things at once.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugh

That ^

Fire = Nukes
Air = Spikes
Water = Snares/hexes
Earth = Defense

If Everything = Nukes, eles would be bland and have no versatality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduinna

In agreement with the above posters. If you want to nuke, spec Fire Magic. Would you ask for more nuking options in Earth Magic too?

The skills I ask to have a few more foes struck already strike multiple foes. The changes would not cause fire and Air to be doing the same thing.

Fire = Nukers

No hexes or single target damage there oh wait:

Hexes: Elemental Flame, Incendiary Bonds, Mark of Rodgort, Smoldering Embers

Single foe damage: Flare, Glowing Gaze, Immolate, Mind Blast, Mind Burn (this one is one people have been complaining about for its spike damage right?)

Air = Spikes

No multiple foe damage there oh wait:

AoE: Arc Lightning, Blinding Surge, Chin Lightning, Invoke Lightning, Lightning Touch, Teinai’s Wind, Whirlwind

Water = Snares/Hexes

No defensive skills or AoE damage there oh wait:

Defense: Armor of Frost, Armor of Mist, Frigid Armor, Mist Form, Swirling Aura, Ward Against Harm

AoE: Maelstom, Ice Spikes, Frozen Burst, Deep Freeze

Earth = Defense

No AoE or snares there oh wait:

AoE: After Shock, Churning Earth, Crystal Wave, Dragon Stomp, Earthquake, Eruption, Sand storm, Shockwave, Teinai’s Crystals, Unsteady Ground, Ward of Weakness

Snares: Earthen Shackles, Grasping Earth, Iron Mist, Ward Against Foes

....

So how is it again that each line is only for set uses?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajc2123

SURE and then while we are at it, lets make healing prayers deal AoE damage while healing, soul reaping have AoE spells, and tactics cause AoE damage!

WHY NOT

/unsigned.

I really should have used a different thread title because if you had read which skills I was talking about or knew how these skills already hit multiple foes you wouldn’t make silly statements like this.

These aren’t skills that don’t already doe AoE damage they are just limited to a set number of foes that they strike all I’m asking is to increase that number.

Kattar · Aug 10, 2009, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Quote:

So how is it again that each line is only for set uses?

It's not. Each line is set toward a specific use.

Chieftain Heavyhand · Aug 10, 2009, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katsumi

It's not. Each line is set toward a specific use.

And yet looking at each lines skills those settings for specific use blur.

Increasing the number of foes AoE skills hit is not removing the spike use of these lines nor is it changing them from what they are potential nuking skills.

The suggestions for Orb and Hammer aside all that is changing is the set number of foes that are hit.

Fate Crusher · Aug 10, 2009, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Seriously, i don't mind people free thinking of possibly having nice AoE damaging skills in the Air Magic line... But to propose changes to the skills to make them even more buff than any of the fire spells is completely ludicrous.

Wanting skills to jump 4 and 6 times to foes "nearby"?? Do you know that's the same range as Rodgorts BUT (with your proposal) will jump 6 times (chain lightning) and deal more damage than rodgorts, not to mention the 25% armour penetration.

And so parties could potentially run a fire and air ele that will cause all sorts of chocolate rain.

shields will also become your own downfall.

EDIT: ok, Rodgorts actually does 14 more damage if both attributes were set to 12... BUT STILL: 25% penetration and a jump of 6!

Chieftain Heavyhand · Aug 10, 2009, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fate Crusher

Seriously, i don't mind people free thinking of possibly having nice AoE damaging skills in the Air Magic line... But to propose changes to the skills to make them even more buff than any of the fire spells is completely ludicrous.

Wanting skills to jump 4 and 6 times to foes "nearby"?? Do you know that's the same range as Rodgorts BUT (with your proposal) will jump 6 times (chain lightning) and deal more damage than rodgorts, not to mention the 25% armour penetration.

And so parties could potentially run a fire and air ele that will cause all sorts of chocolate rain.

shields will also become your own downfall.

EDIT: ok, Rodgorts actually does 14 more damage if both attributes were set to 12... BUT STILL: 25% penetration and a jump of 6!

If you pull a group of 8 Rodgort's will hit all 8 and set them on fire while with the buff Invoke An elite will only hit 7.

A grounp of 10-15 Rodgort's will hit all of them and set them all on fire while Invoke an Elite will still only hit 7.

FlamingMetroid · Aug 10, 2009, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Warriors should be able to heal with hammer mastery like clerics

Xenomortis · Aug 10, 2009, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chieftain Heavyhand

And yet looking at each lines skills those settings for specific use blur.

Of course!
Katsumi didn't say they're for specific uses only, he said each line is aiming towards specfic goals. He didn't say they could only be used as such, because he would be wrong.

Air magic doesn't need extra nuke skills. It is a line not set for that purpose (which is why it's regarded as generally weak in PvE). Your suggestions won't really add much and only cause Air and Fire to overlap a little more.

I agree that the 3 target limit on Invoke and Chain is annoying though, but I dislike the way it selects targets for them too.

Chieftain Heavyhand · Aug 10, 2009, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Air magic doesn't need extra nuke skills. It is a line not set for that purpose (which is why it's regarded as generally weak in PvE). Your suggestions won't really add much and only cause Air and Fire to overlap a little more.

I agree that the 3 target limit on Invoke and Chain is annoying though, but I dislike the way it selects targets for them too.

The only extra skill I was asking for was a change to Orb.

What would bring a huge hell yea for me is that the 3 target limit be removed completely, let the hits come where they may to as many as they can get to, but I didn't want to horribly over power it so I ask that Chain have an additional 2 foes struck and Invoke 4 (it is an Elite after all) kind of like Volley and Barrage.

I have been tinkering with the Air line and watching Invoke jump around to so many and only see 3 foes pop damage is truly disappointing. The skill hits lightning runs all over the place and only three foes take damage.

In PvE hitting 7 foes would cover most groups not all but most. I could see where this might cause troubles in PvP as spacing becomes problematic due to the nature of the skills strike. It doesn't hit every one at once it jumps from one to another via nearby distance.

Coast · Aug 10, 2009, 05:20 PM // 17:20

signed, lets go airspike again!!!!!!!